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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
 Posted - March 29 2003 : 11:42:33 AM
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So, what is your experience? Did you get dry/clean, and then take the steps?
Is sobriety the same as being dry/clean?
Or is there more?
I did get dry/clean, prior to taking the steps.
Not very hard to do, in jail, so no great amount of credit, there!
But I do think that there is growth, beyond just that.
My emotions/thinking, and my actions were all messed up.
If I had stayed the way that I was, I think I'd be back out there, again.
Any thoughts?
Sharing?
Thanks.
Sam
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splashdancer
Advanced Member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - March 30 2003 : 11:13:34 AM
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"did you get dry/clean, then take the steps"
First I figured out that if I did not get dry, I'd lose the things that bring me joy in this life... I searched, hoping I'd learn that I was *not* an alcoholic.. then tried to quit on my own, and could not make it more than two days. I decided to start going to meetings and try AA... got pretty sloshed on my last night drinking, too...
"Is sobriety the same as being dry/clean?"
HA! no, it's not!! Funny that working the steps is teaching me how to find my sense of humor again... and they insist on calling THAT 'sobriety'!!!
To me, the idea of Sobriety involves not just 'not drinking' but learning how to be my Best Self. She's in there somewhere...but has hidden 'in there' for many, many years. I must admit, as I figure out who she is (my Best Self) I'm finding out that I kinda like m'self!
I lean on the Promises.. handling situations which used to baffle me... losing my fear of people and financial insecurity.. and knowing that the promises WILL be fulfilled, sometimes quickly.. but sometimes very slowly... gives me a great deal of hope.
That, finding out who I am and liking 'her', is the very best part of Sobriety....
gena
splashdancer
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n/a
deleted
514 Posts |
Posted - March 30 2003 : 12:34:31 PM
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Ya I'll admit that at first I thought If I just stayed clean and sober everything would just be hunky dory. But then somebody said, "If I don't change the person that I came in with, that same person would pick up a drink again. Now I remember thinking I didn't wanted to pick up again, and I got real scared. But I didn't know how or what changing I needed to do. What, change my clothes, shave my beard and stop cussing. Wasn't that good enough. What the hell, I am not drinking or drugging, so why isn't that good enough. Got a sponsor, got some good direction. But deep inside I knew everything wasn't right. Went to Step Meetings and decided to take the steps, one at a time. Got to Step 3, finally made a decision to conform my will to God's and now I was all set. Maybe the rest of you people needed Steps 4 through 12, but I didn't. I could work a few of the other steps in my life and be okay. Well, insides wouldn't leave me alone. My insides were telling me there was still something missing and still something wrong. Then I heard someone say something about setting themselves free by taking the 4th Step and the 5th Step. Which allowed them to get rid of the bad stuff that filled up their insides and replace the bad with good, the good being spirituality and God stuff. So I got another sponsor and took the 4th and 5th step. Now just to remind you, by this time I already had 18 months of sobriety. And I have to admit, taking those two steps helped me immensely. It felt so good to discard some of the garbage. But, then I stopped. And the insides started working on me again.
So I started going to a Big Book Step Study Meeting. And the more I heard, the better I liked it and the more comfortable I started feeling there. And now I wanted to get a sponsor that has taken the Steps the same way. With God, a sponsor that has taken the steps the same way, as laid out in the Big Book and the Big Book.
Now I have 27 months of sobriety, on Chapter 2 of the Big Book, There Is A Solution. And working this with my new sponsor once a week.
And everything is different. I am learning that I am not so unique, I can honestly and truly identify with another alcoholic in so many ways. And I truly found that I belong here and I do fit in. And I am still making changes. Which is a good thing. Because I still have that fear of drinking again. Which I am told is a healthy fear. For I don't want to drink again. So I have gone forth with willingness. To change the person I came in with. For if I don't, then that person I came in with, will eventually go back to the drink.
Harry
What I am is God's gift to me.
What I make of myself, is my gift to Him. |
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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
Posted - April 02 2003 : 11:22:54 AM
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Wow. I just love you guys!
Man!
Thank you!
I know one of the first things that happened with me was that I was in jail, and finally chemical free. First, I just wanted to die. I had really hurt another person, and I hated myself.
One day, this little voice inside said, "No."
That's the short end of that. I don't even know where the voice came from.
And I was terrified, too...the future...where I was.
And I must have had all this unresolved STUFF. All that crud I had NEVER even spoken about, with ANYONE. I always just pretended, you know? I was fine. Thank you. What's my script?
I loved booze because I would just be spontaneous...didn't care,anymore...screw the script! : )
Anyway, I finally had all this pressure an no where to go. I couldn't use. I couldn't drink. I couldn't hide. The world felt like everything was crashing down on my head.
I started talking. First to other women, where I was. Then to counselors. Then to volunteers I met.
It started to relieve some of that pressure. I started to get some answers/help.
I see now where there must have been a Higher Power involved in that.
And that was my beginning, anyway.
Then, years later, I get to AA? I had drank and used again.
I wanted to stay away from people. But I felt so damned alone and scared.
Lots of different feelings/ thoughts. I thought I'd just do all the steps. Then they were scary. I wanted an instant fix.
You know it didn't happen that way.
So anyway is the short end? Today? I discover that I am still growing along. On this amazing journey.
Just where my head was, this morning....
Uh, oh...thinking???
Love,
Sam
Edited by - Samf on April 09 2003 08:45:29 AM |
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God_Chaser
Advanced Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 01:24:04 AM
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Some interesting perspectives shared here. I think there are as many answers as there are people who come to AA and work towards sobriety,,,,
When I came to AA I heard people say we come, we come to and we come to believe and I thought that was confusing. I came to AA and even though I spent time in jail not drinking or using, then time in detox, dry and not using and then rehab dry and not using, I was still not physically sober until about a year and a half. Then I started to clear up mentally, practicing the steps helped with that, certain disciplines suggested and adopted also helped but I don't think I was really sober (there's a difference between dry and sober) for quite awhile, at least that's my experience.
But in retrospect I began to experience the steps in my life from the very beginning, suggestions I took, actions I took lead to the realization of steps taking place.
Some people say that the most dangerous time for alcoholics is that getting physically clean and sober period from 0 days to 1 year and I tend to agree but think we are never really out of the woods, only subject to being decieved into thinking we are.
There was a period in my own sobriety when I was experiencing alot of situations and circumstances that seemed to force me to deal more specifically with my emotional growth and development, where I was actively involved in Co-Dependency Treatment, Relapse Prevention and ACOA types of groups. Getting married brought to the forefront issues I had not been aquainted with previously and demanded more attention on my part on myself. I began to see a therapist for one on one counseling in addition to the other stuff including AA. Getting divorced also brought up even more things to inventory, examine, share and address in meetings, with sponsor and in steps.
And while I had always maintained spiritual practices like prayer and meditation to varying degrees the latter and more recent period of my sobriety seems to have been more directed to spiritual pursuits and interests.
I have never since the beginning of my sobriety known how to respond to such questions like "What Step Are You On" because I don't really "Work" the steps that way....I mean at this time some things have become almost habitual and automatic which at times concerns me.
For a time my prayer life seemed to be getting dry and shallow simply uttering words without feeling really connected to them, so I stopped for a time. I did an inventory, sort of speak on it and decided to make some needed changes.
I almost can't help reflecting on my day when it is over and automatically make amends when I think they are needed to be made, that is almost habitual as well.
There is something about habitual actions that concerns me. There is something that concerns me about doing something so naturally that I almost loose consciousness of it. That it occurs so automatically that I am almost unaware of it. It feels like being out of touch with myself...
Alright I don't know if this even came close to addressing the initial post but that is what I came up with so if it doesn't relate simply delete it..
Michael
"In hoc cognoscent omnes quia mei estis discipuli si dilectionem habueritis ad invicem."
Thomas Merton
Edited by - God_Chaser on April 09 2003 01:29:05 AM |
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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 09:00:27 AM
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Thanks G_C!
I always get a lot from your posts, so thank you!
My personal feeling is that I could also decieve myself into thinking a drink was not a bad idea, so I don't believe that I am ever out of the woods.
If I get to thinking that way, just for me, I figure I'd be on dangerous ground.
I found that I, also, have to get specific types of help as different life situations comes up. I am amazed to find that that it helps, and that I didn't have to drink or use over it.
I heard, somewhere, that the steps are synergistic, for some, anyway...that they all work with each other and work together, kind of like what you were sharing.
I find that some things come almost automatically, also, which must indicate that my present way of living has changed, so some degree. I do some things differently, now.
I find that I am concerned about habitual actions, as well, at times. In my own self, some things can become a ritual, with no meaning or heart involved in them. To me, that is pretty scary, as I belive the value in it has deteriorated, to some extent, when it has no real meaning for me or has become simply a ritual.
I find that I have a need in myself to try to make the thing more real to me, again.
Hope that makes some sense.
Thank you for your sharing and thoughts.
We all do seem to keep growing, differently, and yet somehow the same, it seems.
Sammie
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n/a
deleted
132 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 10:38:38 AM
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The idea of being dry, without the program of spiritual recovery found in the Big Book is really scary. Once we start to grasp the concept of the freedom given by the practice of a few simple spiritual principles we are on our way to freedom. There is nothing worse, for an alcoholic, than a dry drunk. A dry drunk is when an alcoholic gets sober on willpower and has nothing to replace the chemical, and soon find that being without a spiritual solution for his dis-(ease) he continues the downward spiral, running his life on self-will. I am reminded of the saying “If you always do what you always did, you will always get what you always got.” and that is true with or without alcohol. A life run on self-will is a tragic thing.
Farrell
(The Recovery Connection)
http://www.help101.net |
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God_Chaser
Advanced Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 11:19:21 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Farrell:
There is nothing worse, for an alcoholic, than a dry drunk. A dry drunk is when an alcoholic gets sober on willpower and has nothing to replace the chemical, and soon find that being without a spiritual solution for his dis-(ease) he continues the downward spiral, running his life on self-will.
I can think of something worse.....Being a wet "ACTIVELY DRINKING DRUNK". Given the choice between seeing an AA freind being dry or Drinking....I would gladly, gratefully and mercifully take DRY!
I suppose there are those that hover among us who never have to experience "Dry Periods", times when we might lapse into old thinking old ideas and old behavior, when we might for some unknown reason not practice the life enhancing tools that are the steps. But some have and do and as sad as it is too powerlessly watch, it is inspiring and fills me with immense joy and gratitude to see that a loving God is active and present and doing miracles in these very same DRY peoples lives....
God could and would if he were sought and often intervenes.....even when he isn't sought.....those of us who may experience these dry periods need not feel ashamed or embarrassed, contrary to popular opinion some have to first master dryness before passing on to soberness.
Michael
"In hoc cognoscent omnes quia mei estis discipuli si dilectionem habueritis ad invicem."
Thomas Merton |
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n/a
deleted
132 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 11:33:39 AM
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I stand corrected!!!!
Of course being dry is better than being Drunk. (lets not pick at nits here.) I think we are reaching for the same goal. Progress reather than perfection! What I have found true for me is when I am not practicing The Program of Recovery I easily revert to my old ways and soon find that I am so miserable that taking a drink seems like a viable solution.
Farrell
(The Recovery Connection)
http://www.help101.net |
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God_Chaser
Advanced Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 11:42:55 AM
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Thats what I thought you meant, not picking. It might be helpful though if rather than sharing opinions and making general judgements if you'd share some of that vast "personal" experience of yours.
Have you ever been dry and not sober? Have you ever been sober and then for some reason just dry? Or did you simply come into AA, jump on the beam and remain there from that moment til this. I would simply like to know more about someones experience than what they happen to think at the time.
But thats just me....
Michael
"In hoc cognoscent omnes quia mei estis discipuli si dilectionem habueritis ad invicem."
Thomas Merton |
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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
Posted - April 09 2003 : 6:23:08 PM
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I never even heard the term,"dry", before I came to AA.
I was just so dang happy to be chemical free and feel like I had a new chance to live.
I see where I had gotten some help, in other ways...which kind of proves to me that there must be some sort of grace.
I don't even know, in all honesty, if I could make an adequate definition for dry...but do have periods where my thinking and behavior is really kind of out there, like years ago.
I have periods where I am absolutely, totally nuts.
I have periods where my mind still tries to tell me that a drink is an excellent idea.
It didn't go away.
And when I am starting to act in a manner that seems kind of crazy to me, it scares me. Sometimes, though, I am not really consious of some things, until after the fact. I don't see it, at the time.
I still take other people's inventory. I am still a victim, in my mind, at times. I still can be engulfed by some sort of fear.
I am still extremely selfish and self-centered. It didn't go away.
I guess the miracle, for me, is that I am sober, at all.
Even in the middle of the crazies. Even through the times that a drink seemed a good idea. Etc.
I can fly into rages. I blame other people.
I am definitely not a saint.
But I don't have to stay stuck there, any more.
And I am learning how to do things a little differently, a little at a time.
Yah. I still get really nuts.
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Sobriety
