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n/a
deleted
514 Posts |
 Posted - November 09 2002 : 09:18:44 AM
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Last nights meeting, the speaker was talking about his struggles in recovery. This man has 12 years sobriety, and he never forgets about how he struggled with and fought the program for years in sobriety. It was really good to hear him. Because I don't hear too many people talk about thier recovery today. Or if I do, they talk about how they got material things in their lives now. And how it wouldn't be possible, if they weren't in recovery.
My first 5 months, I was fortunate to listen to people in recovery. that had anywhere from 10 to 23 years sobriety. And they would talk about how difficult it was for them to understand such a simple program. They remembered how hurt and angry they were, and how scared they were early in their sobriety. They would talk about how they fought all the suggestions off, and how more difficult it would make it for them. They would talk about how it was when they would start taking suggestions and turning their will over. How things would get better, because they were getting better. And they would talk about bad things that still go on in their lives today, but instead of whining about it, they would talk about what they would do to turn it over.
Today I go to meetings, and people talk about difficulties going on in their lives today and a month or two later, they are still struggling with the same problems. I never hear them talk about, they have talked it over with their sponsor, or someone else. I never hear them talk about turning it over.
It was so good to go to a meeting and hear somebody talk about their struggles and problems, but also talk about the actions he took to get better.
I will only get out of this program, what I put into it. And I will have problems and struggles going on in my life today. And I can try to become part of the solution and make it better, or I can be part of the problem and make it worse. It is my decision to make. Easy or hard. I am the only problem I have today.
Harry
What I am is God's gift to me.
What I make of myself is my gift to Him.
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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
 Posted - November 09 2002 : 7:04:06 PM
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Harry, thank you!
It is good when you can hear people talk about how they are applying the solution to their problems.
Soemtimes I still need to get things out of me, until I can look at it objectively, or try to live in the solution, rather than the problem.
I never heard people say, before, until I got on here, "Hi, my name is so and so, and I am my problem."
I like it.
Sam
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journeytoserenity
Forum Admin
USA
566 Posts |
Posted - November 09 2002 : 9:44:27 PM
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Yes, Harry, it is good to hear that people with years of sobriety still have their "struggles". Or, at least, have had in some of their years sober. This is my story, too. And, I struggled for the first 5-6 years. I fought everything and kept running into brick walls - especially, emotionally.
I, too, always make a point to talk about the "struggles" in sobriety because I think it's real important for others to hear that someone with some years can still struggle - but get into the SOLUTION!! This, I believe, it the name of the game......
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"We see things NOT as THEY are - but as WE are."
"If you keep thinking things are going to be bad, you stand a good chance at becoming a Prophet." |
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n/a
deleted
514 Posts |
 Posted - November 10 2002 : 10:53:43 AM
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For me it is important to hear that I am not the only one that is struggling with taking suggestions and working the steps. And to know that I am not the only one that waited almost 2 years to decide to work the steps. To know that I'm not the only one who didn't think that all of the program, was not necessary for me to maintain sobriety. That guy I speak of, had mentioned that he had plans on going out to use right after he picked up his 5 year medallion. But fortunately, he told one person what his plans were, That person told another, and so forth. So after the meeting was over, a group of people came up to him, grabbed him and took him out with them for a bite to eat, coffee, and a meeting.
This mornings meeting, and elderly woman, with some 24 hrs behind her, spoke and mentioned how this past week was a miserable week for her. For the first time in many years, something was going on with her, she didn't know what. But she actually wanted to drink. Then she told what she did. She asked for help from her Higher Power. Called her sponsor and called other A.A. friends. Went to meetings, in other words, she used the tools that she picked up during all those years being in the program. She knew that no matter what, if she didn't pick up that first drink this would pass.
I love this program today and all that is available through it. Yes, I have a better life today and am a better person today, and I owe it all to my Higher Power and A.A.
Harry
What I am is God's gift to me.
What I make of myself is my gift to Him. |
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Samf
Advanced Member
USA
447 Posts |
Posted - November 24 2002 : 1:31:10 PM
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Harry...thank you for sharing that!
Man, my HP is so cool!
I don't know what she was going through, but, sometimes, I just have a bad day...or two, or three. I try to just hang on and do what I know to do.
I still bottle up and don't yell for help, until it hurts so dang bad!!
Or thrash around, looking for a way out.
Then, poof...it's gone.
Real wierd, how it just changes.
Anyway, it's good for me to know that other people go through things like that, too.
I don't always know what it is.
But a drink or drug won't make it better.
And that's when I need to reach out and ask for help.
Thank you, Harry H.
Hope you always keep sharing. You have been a real blessing in my sober life.
Sam
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sobercop
Advanced Member
5 Posts |
Posted - December 09 2002 : 11:42:14 PM
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Thanks for the topic. Brought up a lot of thinking for this dinosaur LOL
I heard a long time ago, that pain is inevitlable but suffering is optional.
When I first got sober, it was the most painful, frightening, lonly process in my life. My own Mother told me she never saw me so frightened and confused as when I came back and went to live with her, for I had nowhere else to go.
Your post just brought to mind how we are all only an arms length from a drink.
For this alkie standing still is not an option. In order to maintain sobriety I am either headed to or from a drink.
I have been to meetings and have heard the same people for years have the same issues, the same complaints, and the same attitude. I truly believe that a person can be on a dry drunk for the rest of their lives. I believe this must be the most painful situation, and a very dangerous one.
I fought the program of AA for years, because I felt I was too smart and too strong to need the steps. For me meetings were the only part of the program I needed. But pain can be a great motivator, I looked at where I was living, ( a small studio apartment, driving beat up hatch back and having limited funds) I then thought ok, now what if I was in a mansion, had a limo and driver sitting outside, and the wardrobe and jewlery to beat the band. I would still be the same empty person inside, it would have all meant nothing.
I wont sit here and say material things are meaningless, because I do like "nice things" What I can say is being nice and being treated nicely became much more important than nice things.
To acheive that goal I had no choice but to read the steps, go to step meetings, get a sponsor that worked the steps. I then used the steps as a guideline to change myself, open myself up to suggestions (absurd as some of them sounded lOl) and be willing to open my heart to let something in other than my own self will.
I can say this was not an easy task, nor was it a quick one, It is actually a lifetime project, for if I ever acheive perfection I will be HP (and that is one job I no longer want)
What I have learned is how to be plain ole nice to myself and to others, and it is amazing how many become nice back. Thru this simple but not easy process for one in recovery the niceness led to freedom and the freedom led to joy.
There are those in recovery for years, that for whatever reason just dont see the light , I call it soul sickness. Actually my heart hurts for them, for the odds after many years of them changing are very low. I actually hold more hope for the newcomer, who enters in pain, looking for help, and is open to change and suggestion.
Guess to sum it up I once heard in a meeting
Ya gotta get sober to recover, Ya gotta get into recovery to change, Ya gotta change to get happy
Me, I am fortunate, I took a real look at me, didnt like what I saw, (after years of deceiving myself in recovery) and became willing to change
It all overlaps, with getting honest, getting willing, getting off your butt and taking action
Okay rambled more than I intended
Say g nite Gracie LOL
Peace Serenity and a smile
Sobercop Ronnie (girl)
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n/a
deleted
514 Posts |
Posted - December 10 2002 : 09:28:31 AM
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Ronnie I thank you for sharing that. If you ever want to come around my way, some of us people here would be more than happy to listen to you. We don't have enough of people sharing their experience in recovery.
I was defiant for so many years, so for me to still be a little defiant is almost just natural. I have to keep reminding myself that this program is a process, and changes don't come overnight. And of course, not that I need to remind myself, my sponsor helps me a lot in that area.
But I remember how it was two years ago when I first came back and how I felt. And I know I got mixed messages. Because some people wouldn't share the hard times they were still having in recovery. They did tend to make it sound like life is a bowl of cherries. And I feel it is important to let the newcomer know, that life is still life. Life on life's terms doesn't get better. My perspective gets better. My life will get better as I continue to make changes and get better. But I still have hard times and still struggle with the program. And I learn through some of those mistakes. Sometimes I even make the same mistake expecting different results. But after kinocking my head against the wall enough times, something finally gets through. Then, and only then, do I understand that the program works pretty good as it is laid out, not as Harry wants it to be laid out.
Harry
What I am is God's gift to me.
What I make of myself is my gift to Him. |
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God_Chaser
Advanced Member
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - January 06 2003 : 10:43:14 PM
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I suppose it is easy to look at people who may be sober longer than ourselves and make judgments about what they share, how they share it and how they should be doing it.
We tend to look at things through rose colored glasses,tinted with our own defects and self-centered desires. We see things not from the other persons perspective or considering what they might need to be sharing, but instead focus on what we are not hearing or receiving from them. We judge criticize and gossip about them for failing to live up to our unreasonable expectations and unmet childish needs, all the while we miss the point.
I had, had my share of struggles from the very first day of being in AA and while I have had periods of contented happy sobriety the struggles have continued. They have evolved and changed, they've become more subtle and even more stubborn and resistant to changing. Out of all of those struggles one thing became glaringly apparent, that being my absolute and total need to abandon myself to God as I understand God.
The struggles I faced early on, though difficult, were in comparison beginner courses in the ongoing process of growth through adversity. Bill Wilson, once said that pain was the touchstone to spiritual development and as I progress, regress, grow, move forward, fall short, get distracted and make mistakes this fact becomes ever so clear.
The subtle and mistaken idea I had for the first several years, my secret unspoken hope and belief was that while I would always be recovering and never cured. I would eventually arrive at a place of comfort, safety and security. I figured I would arrive at a place where I could wisely look out upon the still new memebers and share with them how they to could arrive and achieve the Buddah state of consciousness I had work struggled and pained to aquire.
There is absolutely no way of truly understanding the way God works in peoples lives, why some struggle and why some seem to draw aces everytime they sit down at the table.
When I was sober ten years and the bottom fell out of my life I had reached a new low, an emotional and spiritual bottom of sorts. I lost my job, my fiance got loaded, I lost my home, my posessions and could not get a job to save my life. My own resources continued to fail me, every effort I made was just as quickly thwarted. I was beaten into a new type of submission.
I remember speaking at a large meeting during that time feeling humbled and ashamed as if I had done something wrong. There was no success to point to, no posessions to be proud of. All I had was me, sober, beaten, empty and exhausted. My prayers were nothing more than than desperate pleas for consolation and comfort and instead of the words that use to so easily flow from my tongue, tears only came.
After the meeting several people had lined up to speak to me. The majority of people were kind, compassionate and reassuring and while I remember their kindness what really stands out in my mind is the guy with 3 years who came up to me afterward looked me up and down and said "I hope I am not as sick as you are when I'm sober 10 years". His comments cut me to the quick, but at that moment I remembered the times when I thought the same thing about others over the years, the times when in my safety and security felt as if I really had a handle on this AA program.
I guess the tears were still streaming down my face from sharing because when I looked up at him to reply the only thing that came to mind was "I hope so to"...
Recovery is a process that sometimes involves taking steps backwards, sometimes the progress we are making more closely resembles regressing..."some of us tried to hold onto our old ideas" those ideas can be ones I had yesterday or woke up with this morning.
Struggle and adversity have the ability to produce some very valuable qualities that can not really be gotten in any easier way. Characteristics and qualities like empathy, compassion and understanding.
I believe these qualities are at the root of what Jesus was getting at when he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
You may not be struggling now simply because you do not yet possess the qualities needed to weather the storm ahead. You may not be struggling now because you simply do not possess the faith, courage and perseverence required to survive the struggle. But I assure you, your turn will come and when it does there will be someone with a few years of sobriety standing in line to remind you how sick you are and how they hope they aren't that sick when they get there.
They'll be typing on some internet forum about how you didn't share what you shoud've, that what you said was wrong and how they got very little out of it.
Michael
"In hoc cognoscent omnes quia mei estis discipuli si dilectionem habueritis ad invicem."
Thomas Merton |
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Patsyd1
Advanced Member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - January 08 2003 : 08:10:16 AM
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Hi (((((((((Harry))))))))))
It is wonderful to sit and listen to the struggles of others, and what they did to resolve them through working this program.
It was so important for this drunk to hear those with long term sobriety sharing that life on lifes terms happens to everyone and it matters little how much time one has in this wonderful program.... what matters is our reaction to life, and how very human we all are :)
Its not what life hands us, its how we react to what life hands us that counts. And yes I have learned here in the halls of AA that getting into the solution as Vicki shared, is the answer to all my problems today.
Acceptance of what is... and what I can do about for me. Sometimes that will be a simple change of my own attitude... and sometimes it will be I am completely powerless to do anything at all... sometimes it will be simply shutting my mouth, and other times it will be learning to speak up... say what I mean, mean what I say, and don't say it mean....not always easy for this drunk LOL
I know today that no matter what my reaction is... there are lessons, and the lessons are always mine. The outcome is always in God's hands, not mine.
Thank you (((((Harry))))) for sharing this, because yes here in the halls I do need to hear the struggles, thats so important to be human. I also need to listen for the solution.
Love
Patsy
Failed 12 Step Call? Not if we walk away sober! |
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journeytoserenity
Forum Admin
USA
566 Posts |
Posted - January 08 2003 : 11:35:05 PM
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Great stuff in this topic!! Alot of times in recovery, for me, it has been two steps forward....then one step back! Over and over again. It took me many years to realize that I was still coming out way ahead!!
I had to realize that, just because I am in recovery, LIFE doesn't stop happening. "Bad" things DO happeen to "good" people, you know?? AA has taught me how to get thru it all without having to resort to taking a drink. Something I NEVER thought was possible! Imagine that!!!
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http://www.journeytoserenity.cjb.net
Journey to Serenity Website
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"We see things NOT as THEY are - but as WE are."
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Struggles in Sobriety
